In the latest episode of Fraud Talk, the ACFE’s monthly podcast, Jeremy Clopton, CFE, CPA, director at Upstream Academy, sat down in our studio to discuss the top five areas where we typically see conflict arise from generational differences in the workplace. But, he didn’t stop there; he shared advice for overcoming these conflicts and how we can move forward in 2020.

Below is an excerpt from the full transcript of the discussion, which you can download in PDF form or listen to at the bottom of this post.

Mandy: You said, “Loyalty does not mean decades of tenure. We have to have a different measure of loyalty.” Tell me what you mean by the definition of loyalty.

Jeremy: When it comes to loyalty, to me, loyalty is really about being passionate about the organization that you work for. You're engaged and you are willing to work hard for them. How long you've been there is how long you've been there. That’s tenure. That's not loyalty.

We could all probably think about someone, if you think about a company that you work in or a company you've worked in previously, you can probably find someone that's been there quite a long time, that's a low performer, doesn't really do anything, and causes more problems than anything, but they're still there. I don't know that I would argue that that person is loyal as much as they are safe. They're comfortable.

Loyalty to me is you really got to be passionate about what you do, and you are looking to improve the company that you work for and you're putting your best effort forward. It's interesting and I think there's a lot of misperception on loyalty and we think that age drives loyalty. When in all actuality, those of us that, and the individuals — I don't know the best way to say it — but the longer you've been with the company, the harder it is to remember the other companies you were with earlier in your career.

Even the boomers, the hallmark for loyalty, they are the benchmark for the most loyal generation, they even have, there's a study by the Census Bureau between their ages of 18 and 50, I think the number was somewhere around like 11.8 or 11.9 jobs during those years. Most of them were between the ages of 18 and 24, 26 years old. That's also the age that our youngest generations are right now. It's really hard to remember when you're in your 20th year with a company, what it was like in your first six months when you were trying to find the right fit.

It's interesting. I was teaching in a seminar about a year and a half ago and had a lady in the seminar and she said, "I just don't have loyalty among my team. These kids graduate and then they're there for like a year and a half and then they leave. They just aren't loyal." I said, "Do they work hard while [they’re] there?" She goes, "They do but they see this as a stepping stone to something else."

What was interesting is I said, "For context, how long have you been with the company?" She goes, "I've been here for eight months." I said, "You're telling me that loyalty is defined by having been there for a long time, but you yourself have not been there that long?" She goes, "Oh! I guess that doesn't necessarily mean loyalty because I am loyal because I work hard for my company." I said, "That's exactly the thing that we have to keep in mind." Employees want to be loyal to us, but it also has to be reciprocal.

I'm going to work hard for the company as long as the company's willing to work hard for me. What we see in a lot of companies that struggle with this, and they have high turnover in the younger ages, is they are not loyal to them. They're not willing to invest anything to help them grow. They're not willing to help them become better, and then they leave and they say, "Well, you're not loyal. That's why we wouldn't invest in you."

It's such a catch-22 because — I'm going to butcher the quote probably, but it's something along the lines of — people ask, “What if we train them and they leave? What if you don't train them and they stay?” I can't remember who that quote came from but…

Mandy: That's a LinkedIn favorite.

Jeremy: Yeah, it's a LinkedIn quote, at this point. I mean, it's so true. It's to the point of cliché at this point, but it's very true. If we aren't willing to show loyalty to our employees, I don't know that I would expect loyalty in return. It's like we're asking them, "You've got to stay here and do everything for us, but we're not going to do a thing for you." That doesn't make any sense.

Loyalty, to me, you can be loyal your first week on the job. You can be passionate, hardworking, and dedicated to helping that company succeed. That doesn't mean you can't determine that that's not the right career for you. I would argue that if you stay with a company five, ten years after you realize that that isn't even the right career field for you and you're not committed, you're not engaged, you're not passionate, then you're not really being loyal to that company as much as you are just staying in a comfort zone and not willing to better yourself.